Posts by Disillusioned JW

28

Shocking Letter Reveals Jehovah's Witnesses True Beliefs! - YouTube 'xjw curious'

by Mace.Bean in

youtube's 'xjw curious,' pete corbeil, reads proselytizing letter written by a pimo jw who simply shares current watchtower teachings like no other jw.

use google drive link below to print your own copies of this letter.

(114) shocking letter reveals jehovah's witnesses true beliefs!

Disillusioned JW

waton, I never had individual issues of the WT and AW prior to issues of the early 1970s or so (probably no earlier than 1974 ones), ones prior to a few or several years after my birth. At a thrift store had bought some WT bound volumes possibly containing content from as far back as 1960 but I am not sure of that. Were you in the religion (or raised in the religion) prior to the year 1950?

40

Congregation in PA sues over mandatory reporting

by Corney in

ivy hill congregation of jehovah's witnesses is currently suing the pa department of human services.

it requests "a declaration that its elders are entitled to" clergy privilege, or, in the alternative,.

to the extent that the clergyman privilege is determined to exclude its elders on the basis that they are "members of [a] religious organization[] in which members other than the leader thereof are deemed clergymen or ministers," the court declare the statute to be unconstitutional.

Disillusioned JW

Note that https://www.catechismclass.com/catholic_bible_study.php says the following. "Catholics are taught not to independently interpret the Bible but, we are encouraged to read the Bible." Doesn't that sound like the WT saying JWs should not study/interpret the Bible independently of the WT?

40

Congregation in PA sues over mandatory reporting

by Corney in

ivy hill congregation of jehovah's witnesses is currently suing the pa department of human services.

it requests "a declaration that its elders are entitled to" clergy privilege, or, in the alternative,.

to the extent that the clergyman privilege is determined to exclude its elders on the basis that they are "members of [a] religious organization[] in which members other than the leader thereof are deemed clergymen or ministers," the court declare the statute to be unconstitutional.

Disillusioned JW

The Watchtower has Vatican envy. The WT is trying to copy portions of the organizational and legal structure of the Roman Catholic Church.

The WT/JW religion wants all of the legal rights of the Catholic Church while wanting to continue claiming they don't have a clergy class, are not part of Christendom (despite claiming they are the headquarters of the earthly organization of Christ's kingdom), do not have a hierarchy, that their governing body and other Bethel members take a vow of poverty, that they are God's channel and they in some sense receive inspiration from God, that they are the one and only true religion, that they disfellowship some JWs (in other words practice a form of excommunication - even more severe than that of the Catholic church), that they have a legal entity which is called the "Religious Order of Jehovah's Witnesses" (the Catholic Church also has an order), etc. The Religious Order of Jehovah's Witnesses was organized on August 21, 2000 - the same year the WT said the governing body of JWs is no longer a part of the WT corporation.

The WT operates inquisitions - known as Judicial Committees in which they try JWs for heresies and on other matters. The WT says JWs shoul not study the Bible without the guidance of the WT doctrinal literature. The Catholic Church says Catholics should not study the Bible without the guidance of the Catholic Church's literature.

See https://www.dnb.com/business-directory/company-profiles.religious_order_of_jehovahs_witness.ed57e6971ac48c7cf2512c42a2169a31.html and https://www.guidestar.org/profile/11-3574246 . See also https://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/183773/religious-order-jehovahs-witnesses-letter-from-wt , https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporations_of_Jehovah%27s_Witnesses , and https://www.bible.ca/Jw-catholic.htm .

27

Oct 8 1966 Awake! PDF-- pushes 1975 date

by cabasilas in

details about how to download the october 8, 1966 awake!

magazine pdf will appear at the end of this post.

background.

Disillusioned JW

slimboyfat, that is a good point about Jesus and the angels not knowing when the sixth creative day ended. About the time I made my prior post I also thought that, hypothetically speaking, if Jesus really did exist when Adam and Eve were created, then he would know when the 6th creative ended and yet the NT says that in the 1st century CE he did not know when the generation would pass away, and/or when the tribulation begins, and/or when the sign of the Son of Man appears in heaven, and/or when Christ comes in judgement. - Matthew 24:29 - 37.

While the WT says the that "the Son of man coming on the clouds" is seen with figurative eyes of understanding, rather than with literal sight, notice the first part of Matthew 24:30 (1984 NWT). There it says "And then the sign of the Son of man will appear in heaven ...". That is literally saying something will be visible in the sky ("heavens") which would be "the sign of the Son of man" coming in judgement, which then causes nonbelievers in Christ to "beat themselves in lamentation". Not only that, but the verse says those people "will see the Son of man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory." Thus this verse actually says that non-Christians will literally see the Son of Man! it is not simply speaking of followers of Christ figuratively 'seeing' with figurative 'eyes' of understanding the arrival/coming of Christ!

35

Jehovah Witnesses lost in Court. Disfellowshipped Sister Reinstated by Court Order?

by pistolpete in

imagine the "faithful" jws who are now having to talk to this person by court order or face the consequences----legally.. exjws are spreading the news and now some exjws who have been disfellowshipped for years are starting to research to see if this is an option in their country.

here are the articles, you need to translate in google.

https://www.nrk.no/norge/gry-nygard-ble-ekskludert-fra-jehovas-vitner-_-vant-i-lagmannsretten-1.15570621.

Disillusioned JW

At least, perhaps due to a different court case, the WT's shunning policy now prevents the WT from any longer receiving government funds from Norway for being a religion. It is due to a court ruling in March 2022 due to the WT's policy about shunning. See https://a-jw.org/norway/jehovahs-witnesses-loses-appeal-in-norway/ .

10

Does Society Receive State Funding in Norway?

by Band on the Run in

i periodically check the talk page of the jw wikipedia page.

when i entered the search terms, i noticed jw in norway, which aroused my curiosity.

according to the article on religion in norway, norway funds most religious groups.

Disillusioned JW

The WT no longer receives government funds from Norway for being a religion. It is due to a court ruling in March 2022 due to the WT's policy about shunning. See https://a-jw.org/norway/jehovahs-witnesses-loses-appeal-in-norway/ .

27

Oct 8 1966 Awake! PDF-- pushes 1975 date

by cabasilas in

details about how to download the october 8, 1966 awake!

magazine pdf will appear at the end of this post.

background.

Disillusioned JW

Moments ago I read something fascinating regarding the WT's calculation of 6,000 years of human existence in an ex-JW scholarly book by M. James Penton called Apocalypse Delayed: The Story of Jehovah's Witnesses (1st Edition) on pages 199, 201, and in footnote 69 on page 346, which led me to something even more fascinating in the February 15, 1955 WT on pages 94 - 95 (as published in the 1999 WT Library CD-ROM).

Penton's book said in the 1943 WT book called The Truth Shall Make You Free that the WT said the 6,000 years of human existence would end in 1972, but was later shifted to 1975, then 1976, and back to 1975 again. The 1955 WT (in the "Questions from Readers") answers the question of: "What are the reasons for changing the date of Adam's creation first from 4028 B.C. to 4026 B.C. and now recently in the book "New Heavens and a New Earth" to 4025 B.C.?" The latter part of the answer says the following (I added boldface for emphasis)..

'According to Genesis 1:24-31 Adam was created during the last part of the sixth creative-day period of 7,000 years. Almost all independent chronologists assume incorrectly that, as soon as Adam was created, then began Jehovah's seventh seven-thousand-year period of the creative week. Such then figure that from Adam's creation, now thought to be the fall of 4025 B.C., why, six thousand years of God's rest day would be ending in the fall of 1976. However, from our present chronology (which is admitted imperfect) at best the fall of the year 1976 would be the end of 6,000 years of human history for mankind, 6,000 years of man's existence on the earth, not 6,000 years of Jehovah's seventh seven-thousand-year period. Why not? Because Adam lived some time after his creation in the latter part of Jehovah's sixth creative period, before the seventh period, Jehovah's sabbath, began.

Why, it must have taken Adam quite some time to name all the animals, as he was commissioned to do. Further, it appears from the New World Bible Translation that, even while Adam was naming the animals, other family kinds of living creatures were being created for Adam to designate by name. (Gen. 2:19 footnote d, NW) It was not until after Adam completed this assignment of work that his helpmate Eve was created. Since God created nothing new whatever on the seventh day, Eve must have been created on the sixth day; and this the divine record confirms in its account of the sixth day: "God proceeded to create the man in his image, in God's image he created him; male and female he created them."-Gen. 1:27, NW.

The very fact that, as part of Jehovah's secret, no one today is able to find out how much time Adam and later Eve lived during the closing days of the sixth creative period, so no one can now determine when six thousand years of Jehovah's present rest day come to an end. Obviously, whatever amount of Adam's 930 years was lived before the beginning of that seventh-day rest of Jehovah, that unknown amount would have to be added to the 1976 date.'

I don't recall ever reading the WT saying that Jehovah God created more animal family kinds after the creation of Adam, but perhaps I read such in the latter 1970s. But a number of years ago while doing independent study of the Bible I did get the idea of Genesis 2:19 possibly conveying that idea.

20

WT's Impact on Children

by Sea Breeze in

what is your opinion of the wt's impact on children?.

here, children get to connect the dots and see what will happen to you if you are disobedient.

.

Disillusioned JW

Regarding the WT's teachings of the completion of 6,000 years of human existence an of other teachings notice what is said in the "THE AUTHOR'S FOREWORD" by Charles T. Russell dated October 1, 1916 to Volume II (The Time is at Hand) of Studies In the Scriptures. [See http://www.ctrussell.us/d01f9bc2626a96a38625699900786730/292532fd2e3e86a5862564520013da70_7b4ad6db.html .]

'This Volume makes no claim to infallibility, and no claim of any direct inspiration from God in the interpretation of His Word.

... The Bible chronology herein presented shows that the six great thousand-year Days beginning with Adam are ended, and that the great Seventh Day, the thousand years of Christ's Reign, began in 1873. The events of these 43 years, which this Volume claims as the beginning of the Millennium, we still find fully corroborating Bible prophecies, as herein set forth. During these 43 years, nearly all the inventions of our day have been accomplished. The sewing machine, one of the first, began to reach its perfection 43 years ago. Since then, we have all kinds of farming machinery and tools, and workshop, store, factory and home conveniences, in abundance and cheap--through human invention. These are shortening the hours of labor, and doing away with the "sweat of face," which the Bible declares to be identified with the curse.

... We could not, of course, know in 1889, whether the date 1914, so clearly marked in the Bible as the end of the Gentile lease of power or permission to rule the world, would mean that they would be fully out of power at that time, or whether, their lease expiring, their eviction would begin. The latter we perceive to be the Lord's program; and promptly in August, 1914, the Gentile kingdoms referred to in the prophecy began the present great struggle, which, according to the Bible, will culminate in the complete overthrow of all human government, opening the way for the full establishment of the Kingdom of God's dear Son.

Notice that though bold claims were made, it was also stated that they were not claimed to be "... any direct inspiration from God in the interpretation of His Word." Russell and his WT organization was trying to have it both ways!

28

Shocking Letter Reveals Jehovah's Witnesses True Beliefs! - YouTube 'xjw curious'

by Mace.Bean in

youtube's 'xjw curious,' pete corbeil, reads proselytizing letter written by a pimo jw who simply shares current watchtower teachings like no other jw.

use google drive link below to print your own copies of this letter.

(114) shocking letter reveals jehovah's witnesses true beliefs!

Disillusioned JW

Thanks Earnest for informing me there was a person named Evander J. Coward and for indicating that the person named CHAS. A. SMITH (of the West Indies) was writing to Evander J. Coward. That clears up the confusion I had.

BoogerMan I think that Rutherford (but perhaps it was someone else) is the one who wrote the article praising Russell, since The Finished Mystery Mystery book also highly praises Russell and on page four calls him "the Lord's special servant to give the Household of Faith meat in due season" (see https://www.gutenberg.org/files/46016/46016-h/46016-h.html ). I think Rutherford wrote such things in order to gain more influence on the Board of Directors and within the Bible Student movement.

I included a portion of the article so that JWs could see that the WT officially taught for a period of time that Russell was the "Faithful and Wise Servant". Notice that the article says that if readers of the WT were to disregard the teachings of Russell's Studies In The Scriptures it would mean they were disregarding the Lord, disregarding Christ who chose Russell to dispense spiritual food ('meat') in due season! The article also says we should "hold fast to that which we have". No wonder many of the Bible Students held fast to the teachings of Russell and broke away from the Watch Tower (and the Watchtower) when Rutherford started making numerous doctrinal changes!

28

Shocking Letter Reveals Jehovah's Witnesses True Beliefs! - YouTube 'xjw curious'

by Mace.Bean in

youtube's 'xjw curious,' pete corbeil, reads proselytizing letter written by a pimo jw who simply shares current watchtower teachings like no other jw.

use google drive link below to print your own copies of this letter.

(114) shocking letter reveals jehovah's witnesses true beliefs!

Disillusioned JW

Holy smoke! Please read the following from page 391 of the December 15, 1916 issue of the Watch Tower which I read a moment ago at http://www.ctrussell.us/3e8bddb381ab8aff862566bd000abc73/2052dfe85588ea03862566eb0010a4bf_7b4ad6db.html . Most of the boldface was added by me for emphasis.

'THE WATCH TOWER BIBLE AND TRACT SOCIETY is the most wonderful and unusual Corporation on earth. It is the strongest corporation, not financially, but strong because it has been, and still is, used of the Lord for the carrying on of His work. It is unusual in this: that all who are in any wise connected with it gladly render their services without salary; those giving all of their time taking only the bare necessities of life. It will continue in the same manner as in the past to spread the Gospel, so long as the Lord indicates this as His will.

THE WATCH TOWER

This publication is the medium through which the Kingdom Message is brought regularly to the members of the "Household." "That Servant" used this medium to give out the "meat in due season." By his last Will and Testament he provided for the continuance of THE WATCH TOWER by a duly constituted Editorial Committee. The names of the members of this Editorial Committee appear upon the title page of each issue of THE WATCH TOWER. It is the province of this Committee to put in proper form and publish, twice each month, that which goes to the Church. THE WATCH TOWER is not the organ of the Editorial Committee. It is the official organ of the Church. It is the only publication in the world declaring the presence of the King and announcing the nearness of His Kingdom. Therefore, dear brethren, THE WATCH TOWER is your journal. It is the journal of every one in harmony with Present Truth, and its publication is for the benefit of all such. It will continue to publish only that which is in harmony with what "that Servant" has heretofore given to the "Household of Faith."

Shall we, then, continue to recognize in our Class-studies the Berean Bible lessons prepared by Brother Russell? Shall we continue to speak in our Class-studies of Brother Russell as the Lord's Servant who brought "meat in due season to the household of faith." Yes, indeed! Why not? If the Lord was pleased to use him for many years to give the "meat in due season" to the Church, then it is still "meat in due season," and the Berean lessons are essential for the development of those who shall be made partakers of the Kingdom. Should we now disregard the food contained in the STUDIES IN THE SCRIPTURES and other publications of THE WATCH TOWER BIBLE AND TRACT SOCIETY, it would mean that we were repudiating or disregarding that which the Lord has graciously provided for our benefit. We must make the distinction between Brother Russell as a creature and his official capacity as "that servant" of the Master to give out the "meat in due season." To disregard the Message would mean to disregard the Lord.

Let us be courageous and faithful, dear brethren. Let us remember that in unity there is strength. The Lord will continue His work until it is finished. He will gather all of His true children into the Garner in due time. Shall we be of those thus gathered? That will depend upon whether or not we hold fast to that which we have; whether or not we remain loyal to the Lord and to His Message of the Kingdom.

The Lord's "faithful and wise servant" finished his work and left with us his message. His last words to the Church, as set forth in his Will and Testament, show how essential it is for every one who would enter the Kingdom to continue loyal, and faithfully develop the fruits and graces of the Spirit. He said, "I entreat you all that you continue to progress and to grow in grace, in knowledge, and above all in Love, the great fruit of the Spirit, in its various diversified forms. I exhort to meekness, not only with the world, but with one another; to patience with one another and with all men, to gentleness with all, to brotherly-kindness, to godliness, to purity. I remind you that all these things are necessary for us--necessary that we may attain the promised Kingdom; and that the Apostle has assured us that if we do these things we shall never fail, but that 'so an entrance shall be ministered unto us abundantly into the everlasting Kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.'" '

The article then says "ECCE HOMO!" in reference to Russell. Those words are a Latin translation a Greek phrase used in the NT about Jesus Christ. The phrase in English translates as "Behold the Man" or "Look, the man". The Latin phrase "Ecce Homo" is a also the main title of a book written by philosopher Friedrich Nietzsche (a very famous atheist) and first published in 1908.

The same WT article about Russell also says the following.

'God gave him a Message--he gave it to men: He patiently told it again and again. ... "Behold now the Man?--Or wait world-old way To pay him the tribute we owe him today? Stand reverently now, with uncovered head, And look on 'that Servant' and honor the dead! A Man has gone from us, leaving none in his place, Yet his Message of Truth men can never efface. He'd the mind of a master, the heart of a child, The courage of Caesar, a soul undefiled. He'd the love of a father, a shepherd's kind care, The faults of a human and sympathy rare. He lifted a standard and held it up high. He lived--ready to live and ready to die!" '

That article is very discrediting of the current WT organization for it has radically departed from much of what Russell taught, in contradiction to what the above article says must continue to be taught! One could say that WT article is damming of the current WT organization! Wow!

Page 31 of the January 15, 1916 issue of the Watch Tower includes a letter which apparently addresses 'JUDGE' J. F. RUTHERFORD as "MR. COWARD"! The letter also praises Rutherford for sending a copy of a publication which vindicates Russell (perhaps it is the same one which page 398 of the December 15, 1916 issue of the Watch Tower advertises as "Judge Rutherford's Defense of Pastor Russell"). [See http://www.ctrussell.us/3e8bddb381ab8aff862566bd000abc73/54bb2576107d50b0862566e900677ec7_7b4ad6db.html .] The letter says the following.

' "AN ECCLESIASTICAL BATTLE" BY
JUDGE J. F. RUTHERFORD.

DEAR MR. COWARD:--

I have to thank you for the copy of the vindication of Pastor Russell, which you were kind enough to send me, and which, I need hardly tell you, I read with interest, having, as you know, been to some extent prejudiced against your leader and his work.

Its perusal cannot fail to increase my interest in his writings, as each point raised by his champion carries conviction with it to any one who enters the jury-box with an open mind, as, thanks to your interview, I was prepared to do.

Again thanking you, and with best wishes for yourself and work, I am

Yours faithfully, CHAS. A. SMITH.--West Indies.'